Comments on: It Is OK for Christians to Vote No on Prop 8 http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/ the official blog of the ever searching soul, Dr. Robert R. Cargill, Assistant Professor of Classics and Religious Studies at The University of Iowa Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:06:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: bobcargill http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-11392 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:50:25 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-11392 ok, thanx lynne. so as long as a secular state provides documentation of a legal marriage, the mormon church will accept it as valid. i wasn’t aware of that.
thanx again, bc

]]> By: Lynne Cropper http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-11390 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:39:27 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-11390 Yes, certainly that. I am unfamiliar with what makes a Muslim marriage a Muslim marriage. So whatever documentation given at the time of marriage that legitimizes the marriage would be sufficient.

]]> By: bobcargill http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-11389 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:33:55 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-11389 thanx, lynne, for the clarification.
one question: what is the ‘proper documentation’ to which you referred in the last scenario? a state marriage license?
thanx, bc.

]]> By: Lynne Cropper http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-11388 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:28:02 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-11388 Yes–they would consider them married. Here is good example of how much respect the Church has for marriage outside of the temple. I have a dear friend who converted to Mormonism in his life. His wife did not convert, furthermore, she wanted nothing to do with the Church at all. My friend is fully active in the Church, holds the office of high priest in the Melchizedek priesthood, and has held many responsible callings within his congregation. Several years ago he became a worker in the temple (as opposed to just being a participant in the temple rites). This is a sacred assignment and he took it on with gusto. A few years into his service he and his wife divorced. When this happened, he was told that he would not be allowed to continuing working in the temple for seven years. He was allowed to attend as participant but not as a worker/facilitator of the rites. He was devastated but faithfully waited the seven years and is now a worker in the temple once again. Marriage is a sacred institution and divorce is a serious matter to the Church. I can give you more examples of this type of understanding within the Mormon Church.
While some members of the Church lazily refer to it as a temple marriage, it is not. It is a sealing ceremony. For those who are members, in most parts of the world it can count as both a legal marriage and a sealing. But there are many municipalities across the world who do not recognize the Church officiator has having the authority to perform a marriage. In these cases the couple will be married civilly first and then sealed afterward.You cannot be sealed to your spouse unless you have been legally and lawfully wedded. So, lets say that, hypothetically, the Muslim couple decided to convert to the Mormon faith and after waiting the required time of one year, decided and were worthy to be sealed in the temple. They would not be remarried first–they already are married, the fact that it was a Muslim ceremony is irrelevant. After showing proper documentation they would be sealed by one who has the authority to seal marriages beyond the grave.
Hope this clarifies things. Happy to discuss this anytime.

]]> By: bobcargill http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-11361 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 03:23:08 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-11361 hi lynne, thanx for the comment.
point of clarification: do mormons accept a muslim marriage as a legit marriage? i’m not talking about the state, but within the church. if two muslims are married in a traditional muslim wedding, would the mormon church accept that as an acceptible marriage in the church?
thanx, bc

]]> By: Lynne Cropper http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-11360 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 02:59:50 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-11360 Hi Prof. Cargill:
Just by way of clarification. You said,

“Likewise, Mormons will continue to insist that only Mormon marriages (preferably in a Temple) will be acceptable as valid Mormon unions.”

“Mormons don’t accept non-Mormon marriages, and insist that only marriages performed in a Mormon temple allow the couple to remain married in the afterlife.”

These two statements are not completely accurate. While it is true that Mormons consider a marriage performed in one of their temples as a sealing for time and all eternity, it is not true that non-Mormon marriages are not accepted as valid and binding. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints holds marriage to be a very sacred, God-ordained union between a man and a woman. Any marriage, temple or not is considered sacred. There is no such thing as a “valid Mormon union.” If the Church felt that only a temple sealing was valid, then they would have had no reason to oppose same-sex marriage because a same-sex marriage would have been labeled as invalid and therefore, would not impact what is done in their temples. The Church took its stand because they believe that marriage between a man and a women is the only union that God has ordained. To define marriage as something other than that it is not what God would want us to do. Therefore they took a stand in support of Prop 8.
Thanks for the blog.
Lynne Cropper
Graduate Student, U. of Iowa

]]> By: a study in masculinity: comparing michael irvin and mark driscoll « XKV8R: The Official Blog of Dr. Robert R. Cargill http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-7623 Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:51:12 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-7623 [...] am no longer a Christian because I advocated so strongly against California’s Proposition 8 (here and here and here and here). And while I don’t let petty, false accusations and/or what other [...]

]]> By: i am very, very proud of the fact i am moving to iowa « XKV8R: The Official Blog of Dr. Robert R. Cargill http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-4597 Fri, 08 Apr 2011 18:09:07 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-4597 [...] I shall continue doing my part (here and here and here and here and here and here and here) to combat the discriminatory hatred that continues to be spewed forth by those so-called [...]

]]> By: the truth about apple’s banning of manhattan declaration ‘traditional marriage’ app « XKV8R: The Official Blog of Dr. Robert R. Cargill http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-3179 Sat, 18 Dec 2010 18:14:28 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-3179 [...] a supporter of the right of same-sex couples to marry, I don’t like this app. That said, Apple should not [...]

]]> By: It Is OK for Christians to vote NO on California Prop 8 (The Measure that Bans Gay Marriage) « Malibu Church of Christ Blog http://robertcargill.com/2009/02/15/it-is-ok-for-christians-to-vote-no-on-prop-8/#comment-3038 Wed, 08 Dec 2010 23:29:22 +0000 http://bobcargill.wordpress.com/?p=125#comment-3038 [...] October of 2008, I wrote an article about Prop 8 entitled, “It Is OK for Christians to Vote No on Prop 8,” and the efforts by many to ban gay marriage in California. I opposed the measure publicly, [...]

]]>