Cult leader Mark Driscoll
You must read Matthew Paul Turner’s most recent exposé of cult leader Mark Driscoll and his Mars Hill Church’s cult behavior when it comes to church discipline.
You simply will not believe what is going on behind the scenes at Mars Hill. We’ve already seen Mark Driscoll discuss (watch about the 3 minute mark) how he builds his church by intentionally targeting young men and their businesses. But now, Mars Hill’s disciplinary practices have been exposed for the cult tactics they are.
Now, according to Turner, a copy of a Mars Hill ‘church discipline’ contract is posted online, where the ‘sinner’ who has been ‘brought under church discipline’ has his sins spelled out, and in turn is asked to write out his further sins in full detail, meet with a prescribed ‘community group’ regularly, ‘write out in detail his sexual and emotional attachment history with women and share it with’ the pastor, and ‘write out a list of all people he has sinned against during this time frame, either by sexual/emotional sin, lying or deceiving, share it with’ the pastor.
Also available is the letter of ‘church discipline’ sent to the rest of the church after the member decided to leave the Mars Hill church. The document spells out the terms of the excommunication, citing the sexual nature of the individual’s sins, and detailing what members of the Mars Hill community can and cannot do with the excommunicated former member on their own time.
It will turn your stomach.
Dr. Benjamin Zablocki, Chair of the Department of Sociology at Rutgers University, defines a religious cult as “an ideological organization held together by charismatic relationships and the demand of total commitment,” usually due “to members’ adulation of charismatic leaders,” often “contributing to the leaders becoming corrupted by power.” (Zablocki, Benjamin, “A Sociological Theory of Cults,” presented at the annual meetings of the American Family Foundation, Philadelphia, PA, 1997.) In my opinion, the behavior of Mark Driscoll and his Mars Hill church meets the classic definition of a religious cult.
The individual in Turner’s exposé is compelled as a condition of further participation in the group to write out in detail a list of his potentially shameful personal sexual history, while refusal to do so leads to personal details already confessed to the leadership being revealed to the community, along with directives to the community to ostracize and not communicate with the excommunicated individual – a community which in many cases is the sole friendship and support group for the individual. That is the definite activity of a cult.
We all knew that Mark Driscoll was a tumor on the face of Christianity, but these latest revelations may signal the end for the community, which if we’re honest, is probably not a bad thing at all.
If you a member of the Mars Hill church, get out. And if you would like help getting out, feel free to comment below or email me, and I can refer you to counselors who specialize in helping people remove themselves from abusive relationships, communities, and cults.
Robert R. Cargill
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Filed under: christianity, fundamentalism, religion, robert cargill Tagged: | Benjamin Zablacki, cult, discipline, mark driscoll, mars hill, matthew paul turner, neo-fundamentalism, sexual, sin
“leads to personal details already confessed to the leadership being revealed to the community,”
Much like Scientology – during the endless ‘auditing’ sessions, members confess or reveal scandalous or embarrassing facts about themselves, which go into files, and which come out if the person later tries to leave or turns against Scientology.
It sounds like an over zealous ‘elder’ needs to be pulled into line here. I think we need to take church discipline seriously, but handle it gracefully. Here in Australia when a high profile minister fell into disgrace – a church from a different denomination was approached to handle the discipline and restoration process.
I think this approach was very healthy for all concerned.
Well said, Dr. Bob. Finally someone is calling it like it is!
If God is like Mark Discroll, then to quote J. Dom Crossan (who is quoting Job’s wife) we should really just curse god and die.
I am amazed as a former evangelical at just how many evangelicals actually take this fool seriously. One of my childhood friends “liked” this guy on facebook, and he is studying to be a youth minister/pastor!!!!!!! I fear that Ken ham, James Dobson, and conservative apologetics have so captivated conservative evangelicals that it seems that they have completely lost the ability to critically think about what someone is talking about if they are behind a pulpit!
Hold off Aaron, Mr. axe-to-grind,
I’m an evangelical, and no I didn’t flush my brain at my conversion. I pegged Driscoll the moment I saw him. I’ve studied his doctrine and his practices. He is NO evangelical. He is neo-gnostic mystic, with pretensions of grandeur, megalomaniac and an open view of the canon. NO evangelical worthy of the name would be anything but a cessationist. The canon is closed, there is no revelation, and any appeal to a direct experience of God is a form of metaphysical monism, where the self is absorbed into the divine. The guy’s a 24-carat freak. Please don’t tar us with the same bunch.
Gus Gianello
[...] and will respond, but on spectacular note is Dr. Cargill’s response. He’s right – it’s a cult. He warns, If you a member of the Mars Hill church, get out. And if you would like help getting [...]
This is stupid. You’re in Iowa. And you are calling someone from Seattle a cult leader. Please. His actions are in line with the scriptural patterns. But you may refer to all of the new testament church presented in the Bible as a “cult” You mentioned his videos…Is that all you know? Did you get hurt by a cult and now are a cynical engineer toward the motives of every religious organization? I know Mark. Not well. But Mark is following a biblical pattern. It’s just he’s at a really really big church. No one likes to be called out. Especially in regard to their sexual sins. It’s uncomfortable. But just because for once someone is actually doing it deosn’t make them a cult leader. It shows they care about the cancer in our society that is the sexually dishonorable and deviant behavior towards eachother that happens all the time and this church has enough balls to actually try and expose one of the worst things in our society for what it is. Sinful. Sorry if you have a problem with that. But you’re probabally someone who does have a problem with sexually inappropriate behavior and being told the truth is difficult for you to deal with. It’s ok. But I was glad when someone called me out and held me accountable. I didn’t like it at first either. Maybe it’s time for someone to hold you accountable to a few things?
[...] on the erratic and dangerous Driscoll, and I hope you that are soft to this madman will read this here. Cargill and Matthew Paul Turner have been watching, and this new revelation about Driscoll’s [...]
lol. i loved your opening: ‘this is stupid. you’re in iowa.’ lol.
yes, from the outset, your comments are rooted in logic, as no one outside of seattle can possibly know and comprehend a ‘pastor’ who makes marketing on youtube a priority.
please show me the ‘biblical pattern’ in the nt mark is following that authorizes him to order a member to write a list of past sins, submit it to the church leadership, and sign a contract as a condition of continued membership, and where failure to do so results in the public broadcast of the aforementioned list of sins, the shaming and humiliation of the member, and instructions to the rest of the membership to avoid contact with the individual?
by the way, since you will no doubt appeal to matt 18:17, please tell me:
how did jesus treat tax collectors and pagans? here are some hints: luke 18:10-14. luke 19:1-10. matt 10:3.
how did jesus treat those caught in sexual sin? hint: john 8:1-11. (and please don’t argue that what he wrote in the sand was a disciplinary contract ;-)
cheers,
bc
A religious group held together by members’ total commitment to a charismatic leader? Sounds an awful lot like NT Christianity to me…
You can’t use the word “cult” as an insult, it’s just a classification of a religious group. What Mars Hill is doing may be wrong and despicable, but church discipline plays no part in determining whether a group is a cult or not, even by the definition you cited. Of course, “Mark Driscoll is the leader of a church with particularly strict church discipline” doesn’t bring in quite as many readers as “Mars Hill is a cult”…
jim,
charismatic leadership and a neo-fundamentalist doctrine do not by themselves meet the threshold of a designation as a cult. however, when coupled with the requirement of a written confession of sins, that is then passed onto members of the community if the one ‘under discipline’ decides to leave voluntarily, along with instructions to the members not to fraternize with the now ex-member (even on their own time away from church sponsored-activities) thereby claiming authority over all aspects of the members’ lives and free times, and the continued consolidation of leadership under one man (and the dismissal of any/all in the administration that disagree with the leader), then, in my opinion, meets the threshold of a definition of a cult.
the revelation of details of one’s otherwise privately confessed sins (or, to follow 1 Cor. 13:5, ‘record of wrongs,’ again, not defining ‘wrongs’ in legal terms (as being sexually intimate with one’s fiancée is not illegal in the u.s.), but the cult’s definition of ‘wrong’) as punishment (or an attempt to shame the individual) for expressing a desire to voluntarily leave the organization constitutes the activity of a cult.
bob cargill
[...] Dr. Robert Cargill, how much more evidence do you need? mark driscoll’s mars hill church is a cult. [...]
@Joe, considering that Mars Hill is expanding all over the Western United States (recent church plants in Portland, Orange County, California and Albuquerque, New Mexico), also has a major influence over the Acts 29 church network, and Driscoll himself just had a book on the New York Times bestseller list, I think that calling out this behavior is not only right, but appropriate and necessary. However, I am a little prejudiced in this regard as ‘ve made a point of alerting people to the actions and activities of a certain space-alien cult *cough*Scientology*cough* for the last 18 or so years. The first commenter is correct; the only difference between the behavior of Mars Hill and Scientology is that one is allegedly Christian and the other isn’t. They’re both engaging in cultlike behavior.
My sister goes to MHC, and my mother listens to the podcasts of Driscoll’s sermons. I am at a loss as to how to show them how dangerous he and his church are. It’s frustrating and terrifying.
Even Adolf Hitler is concerned about Driscoll’s expanding empire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67a20Qymfaw
i saw that. busted me up! put a lot of text in and it’s hard to read at some points, but one can pause ;-).
the lines about going about of style and the register are classic!
i lived in socal before moving to iowa, so i got most of the references.
i’ll embed it here. thanx!
“and please don’t argue that what he wrote in the sand was a disciplinary contract ”
Best. Line. Ever.
If by some chance Andrew – the former member of Mars Hill – is reading this, I’d like to assure him that although he may have “removed himself from the protection, covering, and fellowship” of a particular church, he is still fully known, loved and cared for by God.
agreed!
Hey Joe,
What about 2 Corinthians 2:5-11? Andrew is repentant- he wasn’t caught. He confessed to spiritual mentors, as well as his fiance, and willingly attended many meetings. And remember from 1 Cor that the man in question was sleeping with his step mother.
Forgiveness for the Offender
5 If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. 6 The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. 7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. 9 Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10 Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.
[...] him except “for the purpose of admonishment.”Robert Cargill isn’t wrong: “That is the definite activity of a cult. … If you are a member of the Mars Hill church, get out.”But perhaps I’m being unfair [...]
[...] have weighed in on the issue, including Jonathan Fitzgerald, Dianna Anderson, Sarah Moon, and Bob Cargill. These people are more articulate than I. So instead of writing about this myself, I urge you [...]
[...] evidence against Mark Driscoll’s douchebag-theology. It’s one more reason to reaffirm what Robert Cargill said: “If you a member of the Mars Hill church, get out.”But then part of the response to [...]
I think the whole of Christianity is becoming a cult. More and more we hear about “spread the word” and “convert everyone” and they still push to have the Ten Commandments and Christian laws written on our government buildings and forced on people who simply just want to live.
I say get rid of it all. I’m sick of Christians, I’m sick of their version of God and honestly wish they’d all just go away.
[...] Dr. Robert Cargill [...]
Just a bunch of repressed, sexually dysfunctional little boys trying to hid from themselves in a herd of other dysfunctional little boys. When the lid blows on this little drama I am willing to bet money there will be numerous stories about the good pastors sexual behavior. Lets’ see, we have a powerful (?) middle-aged white male obsessed with sin and punishment s urrounding himself with guilt stricken young men obsessed with sin, sex and power over other men…sounds like a script for a gay porn flick.
Pastor Mark has a history of dishonesty.
In the Mars Hill Doctrine series, he used a fake quote to try to smear atheists. http://driscontinuity.tumblr.com/post/15231214839/cant-find-a-quote-make-one-up
He can’t remember if God audibly spoke to him in Idaho or Washington: http://driscontinuity.tumblr.com/post/14297925997/washington-or-idaho
He tried to blame Ted Haggard’s wife for his actions, then later denied ever saying anything about the Haggards: http://driscontinuity.tumblr.com/post/16120606145/pastor-mark-lies-in-interview
[...] Jesus Needs New PR looks at Church Discipline within Mark Driscoll’s Mars Hill, with follow up comments from robertcargill.com. [...]
Asssuming Joe & Jim are not the same person with two heads (as in Heinlein’s “Universe”) and not part of “Deep Throat” Driscoll’s Thought Police Truth Squad, they illustrate a common Christianese mistake.
Defining “Cult” entirely in terms of Theology instead of abusive control-freak behavior. This messed me up during the Seventies, when I was involved in such an aberrant Christian Fellowship(TM), over-their-head into the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement. All the Christianese Cult-Watch groups of the time defined “Cult” entirely in terms of non-orthodox (non-Evangelical, actually) theology, completely ignoring spiritual abuse and control-freaking. While they parsed Theology letter-by-letter, a lot of abuse went on under their radar. And the Not-a-Cult Leaders would point to their clean bill of Theological health as an additional weapon to use on their followers.
Just a bunch of repressed, sexually dysfunctional little boys trying to hid from themselves in a herd of other dysfunctional little boys. When the lid blows on this little drama I am willing to bet money there will be numerous stories about the good pastors sexual behavior. Lets’ see, we have a powerful (?) middle-aged white male obsessed with sin and punishment s urrounding himself with guilt stricken young men obsessed with sin, sex and power over other men…sounds like a script for a gay porn flick.
Driscoll appears to be sexually obsessed, possibly to the point of being a male nymphomaniac. His infamous Song of Solomon sermon series comes across as Porn for Christians; his “visions” are probably his sexual fantasies coming out in an acceptable form (and he might not even be conscious of this). He has shown himself to be a control freak obsessed with Machismo (possibly a high school Beta-Male doughy boy trying to climb up into an Alpha Male), and an autocratic boss who surrounds himself with personally-groomed yes-men, so he has NO reality check. More terrible, all this is cosmically-justified by Divine Right.
And the worst thing about it is as a CELEBRITY Megachurch pastor (emphasis on CELEBRITY), he cannot show any weakness or flaw. He is God’s Anointed, He Has To Be Perfect and Uber-Spiritual. All it can do is build up inside, with more and more attempts at self-medication by preaching. I figure he’s headed for a big fall a la Jimmy Swaggart and Ted Haggard; I expect his CELEBRITY Christianese career to end with a bang, in a sex scandal.
[...] a story about sin, repentance, and Mars Hill Church. The story (via @JesusNeedsNewPR). And a startling interpretation (via @drantbradley). Links do not mean I agree on this [...]
[...] all of the turmoil that Mark Driscoll has brought upon his Mars Hill church franchise in recent months (see the [...]
I recently left mars hill due to problems that kept happening. I finally got tired of the stress that i delt with for almost 2 years there. I checked out one other church but would like to check out more. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Preferably non denominational. My email is mrkbnt@yahoo.com and my name on Facebook is Mark bent. Thanks.
@Mark Bent
I suggest you read “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin. You can check her website http://www.juliaduin.com for further information about the book and the author. The book takes the reader through a number of issues that influence people to leave church. I read the book; it’s excellent!
Luke 17:3, a text similar in content to Matthew 18:15, says this:
“If another disciple sins, you must rebuke the offender, and if there is repentance, you must forgive. And if the same person sins against you seven times a day, and turns back to you seven times and says, “I repent”, you must forgive.’” (NRSV)
This verse very clearly implies that the forgiveness and disciplinary process, even against a disciple who has sinned SEVEN TIMES in the SAME DAY, can be legitimately conducted WITHOUT a month of intricate meetings and exposures to divers committees and inquiring members of the church. Why has not Mr. Driscoll taken this verse into account?
According to Jesus’ own words: 1. sin leading to 2. rebuke leading to 3. Verbal repentance leading to 4. forgiveness can all occur on the same day before ONE OTHER PERSON. If said offender sins again on the same day, the process is to be undergone again without losing an ounce of its legitimacy.