Clever Pastor Makes Gutsy Argument Against Gay Marriage*

I’ve argued this issue for a long time, but this gutsy pastor actually lived it – in front of his City Council!

The Rev. Dr. Phil Snider of Brentwood Christian Church stood before the Springfield, Missouri City Council on August 13, 2012 and made one of the bravest 2:30 arguments against* gay marriage I’ve ever heard.

Watch the video, and then remember: when contemplating your position on social issues, you must read the Bible in the same way you must watch this video: ALL of it, all the way through TO THE END.

If you’re going to make claims about “biblical values” on social issues, you had better be prepared to use that same hermeneutic (manner of reading and interpreting the Bible) consistently on all of the Bible’s social commands. AND, you had better read ALL of the Bible, lest you make an argument on ONE social issue, and then paint yourself into a corner and force yourself to defend some abhorrent position on ANOTHER quite ‘biblical’ social issue, like slavery or the suppression of women, or genocide, or the taking of foreign women from conquered people as your wives.

I say the preacher is gutsy because he actually stood up and did it for the public record. He took the SAME religious arguments from old social issues and applied them to same sex marriage. THAT just happened!

Watch the video all the way through to the end, and you’ll see acted out what I’ve been arguing here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here for years now.

(HT: Matthew Paul Turner)

fuller seminary’s ‘the burner’ blog reviews mark driscoll’s new book on sex (er, marriage)

Mark Driscoll's "Real Marriage"David Moore of “The Burner” (Fuller Theological Seminary’s blog), has posted two reviews of Pastor Mark Driscoll’s (and his submissive-by-God’s-command wife, Grace’s) new book, Real Marriage: The Truth about Sex, Friendship, and Life Together.

The first review is entitled: “(It Seems) Mark Driscoll Thinks Wives Are Only Good for Sex.” The second review is entitled “Mark Driscoll’s Chauvinist Views on Appropriate Roles in Marriage.”

Both reviews are, unfortunately, dead on.

In the first review, an editor’s note points out that the words “(It Seems)” were added to the title after complaints in the comments area that it was too harsh. They should have left it the way it was, for the review accurately articulates Driscoll’s obsession with his own powers of extrasensory perception and psychic visions (which I’ve critiqued earlier), and his ability to use them as a time-traveling voyeur to ‘see’ the sexual pasts of his wife and those he counsels.

The Burner’s review states:

Listen to how many times Mark considers women (and specifically Grace–his wife and co-author) as merely sexual beings:

“One night…I had a dream in which I saw some things that shook me to my core. I saw in painful detail Grace sinning sexually during a senior trip she took after high school when we had just started dating. It was like watching a film–something I cannot really explain but the kind of revelation I sometimes receive…Had I known about this sin, I would not have married her. But God told me to marry Grace, I loved her, I had married her as a Christian, we were pregnant, and I was a pastor with a church plant filled with young people who were depending on me.” (11-12)

“Day after day, for what became years, I spent hours meeting with people untangling the sexual knots in their life, reading every book and every section of the Bible I could find that related to their needs…I had a church filled with single young women who were asking me how they could stop being sexually ravenous and wait for a Christian husband, then I’d go home to a wife whom I was not sexually enjoying. One particularly low moment occurred when a newly saved married couple came in to meet with me. I prayed, then asked how I could serve them. She took charge of the meeting, explained how she really liked her body and sex, and proceeded to take out a list of questions she had about what was acceptable as a Christian for her to do with her husband. It was a very long and very detailed list…After they left the counseling appointment to get to work on the list of acceptable activities, I remember sitting with my head in my hands just moaning and asking God, “Do you really expect me to do this as a new Christian, without a mentor or a pastor, in the midst of my marriage, and hold on for the next fifty years?”

“Perhaps the most damaged among us are prostitutes whose bodies have been sacrificed to the god of sex.” (112)

“As with many things in marriage, communication is key. When I came to the conclusion that the cure for a lot of my moodiness was having more frequent sex with my wife, I simply told her. Yes, it’s that simple… [He goes on to state that when he tried to talk to Grace about his depression, she talked too much about emotions] The truth was I needed to have more frequent sex with my wife, and we needed to discuss how that could happen…To make matters worse, seemingly every book I read by Christians on sex and marriage sounded unfair. Nearly every one said the husband had to work very hard to understand his wife, to relate to her and when he did that to her satisfaction then, maybe, she would have sex with him as a sort of reward.”

“Some couples use [anal sex] to prevent pregnancy. In conjunction with the rhythm method of birth control in which normal penis-vagina intercourse is suspended on a woman’s days of fertility, it is possible to use anal sex as an option.” (186)

This might be a new low for Christian marriage books. Is there more to marriage that male sexual satisfaction?

In a second review, The Burner explores Driscoll’s apparent misogynistic approach to sex and marriage:

Driscoll follows this line of thinking in creative ways. The man is the really, really important one in the marriage:

“In this season we shifted into ministry-and-family mode, neglecting our intimacy and failing to work through our issues. This became apparent to me when my pregnant wife came home from a hair appointment with her previously long hair (that I loved) chopped off and replaced with a short mommish haircut. She asked what I thought, and could tell from the look on my face. She had put a mom’s need for convenience before being a wife. She wept.” (11)

See? He doesn’t hate his wife–she’s just not as important as him.

“Men, we can help our wives by serving them, especially if they are working outside the home or have children who can take forever to get down for bed. This may include, if finances permit, a housekeeper or other help to free up some of your wife’s energy.” (166)

Heaven forbid that the husband actually help his wife himself. Not to mention the implied belief that household duties and childrearing are the wife’s job.

“In choosing a church, it must be a church that the husband wants to attend. Too often the wife is the one choosing the church because it meets her emotional desires and the children’s programming needs… [He explains that men don’t like to go to church.] To curb this trend, you, the husband, need to take the initiative to find a church that you also find challenging, one that is filled with men you respect, enjoy and would pursue godly relationships with.” (59)

Poor women. They can’t distinguish between their girly feelings and their need to worship God corporately in a community of faith.

I shall also refer you to reviews by Rachel Held Evans, which in part reads:

But by far the most disturbing part of the book is the first chapter, in which Mark and Grace go into extraordinary detail about their troubled sexual relationship. In this section, Grace is often cast as the damaged and sinful wife who withholds sex from her deserving husband, Mark the hero who is justified in leaving his wife but instead comes along to rescue her. The amount of guilt and shame that pervades this part of the book makes me so sad.

I shall conclude with the following:

Mark Driscoll is now the Christian equivalent of Ancient Aliens star Giorgio Tsoukalos: His fanatic cult followers buy his skubala because they’re nuts, while the rest of us watch incredulously and protest the horrific train wreck.

I shake my head as Mark Driscoll makes his money selling harmful waste in the name of the Lord. What? You don’t think it’s about saying outrageous things to stir controversy and make money selling books? Why, there’s even a book tour and a giveaway of an iPad filled with all of Driscoll’s sermons.

really? mark driscoll wants to teach you (that is, men) to ‘lead’?

Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church

Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in what is *not* a mugshot.

seriously. just watch this video. just watch it. maybe move a trash can next to your computer, or better yet, take your laptop to the toilet, just in case you get the sudden urge to vomit.

matthew paul turner at jesus needs new pr puts it this way:

Pastor Mark wants to help YOU look tired and drained like him–as well as 9,999 other men in ministry!

And all of this is for free (all you need is a penis!)

But you have to sign up! Because if 10,000 people don’t sign up for this adventure, he won’t do it.

And what an adventure of rejoicing it will be… for a young Calvinist, this will be like getting spanked by Jonathan Edwards…

Via YouTube videos and other exclusive content, Pastor Mark will take you to Ireland with him… and England… and Turkey… and to Orlando with RC Sproul. You’ve always wanted to go to Orlando with RC Sproul, right?

Do you want Mark to teach you how to lead?

the video really is an exercise in, “see, i’m not really all that educated, and god talks audibly to me, and i’m a leader, and i get to hang out with cool people (read my full bio and see how much i brag about how many people follow me on twitter), and i know you want to be like me, so instead of educating yourself in the proper sense and going to college and to seminary and doing graduate degrees in ancient languages and biblical literature (because that stuff’s way too hard!), just sign up for my videos (that is, if you’re male and therefore eligible to be a leader) and i’ll teach you how to lead.

seriously, i especially loved these tidbits from the bio:

  • Preaching magazine named him one of the twenty-five most influential preachers of the last twenty-five years. (He was #17 and the youngest person on the list by over a decade.)
  • He has preached on every continent except South America and Antarctica.
  • His sermons are regularly near or at the top of iTunes’ Religion and Spirituality podcasts
  • He can also be found on Twitter and Facebook (with over 110,000 combined followers and fans) [seriously, that’s on his C.V.]
  • an iPhone app (downloaded by 37,000 people)

so watch the video, and ponder these questions while you do:

  1. really? ‘backstage’ at mars hill church?
  2. really? there are leaders around the world that could benefit from you?
  3. really? leadership coaching with me (mark driscoll)?
  4. really? ‘tell you whatever it is i’m learning at that time’? wouldn’t i rather learn from your teacher? (strike that actually, nevermind.)
  5. really? thing that ‘leaders need to know’ like ‘how to recover on mondays when you feel like you’ve been hit like a truck’? really? what are you, picking grapes all day? laying bricks? doing construction? you’re a preacher. you stand up and speak for an hour on sunday. i know preaching creates a bit of stress on monday, and that there’s more to it than sunday, but really? you got ‘hit by a truck’?? i have some friends in the central valley of california who might have some comments about what ‘hard work’ really is.
  6. really? ‘what’s it like to be a pastor’s wife’? really? so women aren’t eligible to be leaders/pastors? what if your wife is the pastor? (like me) and only on sundays? what about the rest of the week? how does she handle being married to you on those days?
  7. really? ‘how to handle people needing you‘? really?
  8. really? paul had a doctor? and it was luke??!! seriously? what is this, free-association fundamentalist harmonization hour?
  9. really? saving your house? saving your marriage? saving your voice? that makes you a leader: knowing how to save your voice??
  10. really? these are the things that [male] leaders need to know?
  11. really? do we really get to watch ‘people come into town to meet with you’? please?
  12. really? you never know who you’re going to bump into?? (unless you ask your booking agent?? – click here to fill out mark driscoll’s ‘speaker request form’ or view his speaking calendar.) really, ‘never know who you’re going to bump into’?
  13. really? you don’t want to be arrogant about it, but you want to help me?
  14. really? starting in january, we can get ‘backstage, behind the scenes’ videos? featuring you?

and note to self when making podcasts: LOOK AT THE CAMERA, not at yourself on the screen! i can’t watch this video without thinking the entire time that he’s watching himself while he talks on his mac. watch his eyes. lol.

so if you want to learn all the important things about being a leader like mark driscoll, like how to handle ‘people needing you’ (see the 1:39 mark in the video), then sign up. because the world needs more white, male leaders like mark driscoll (as difficult as that can be). just remember, make sure you bring your testicles, because every fundamentalist knows that it is in the testicles where the leadership authority of the holy spirit truly resides.

view the ‘unlisted’ video here (what are you hiding?):

HT: matthew paul turner

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